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American Elgin

• Numbering System Explained •

• 10 Tips for Collectors •

• 27 + 30 Jewel Watch History •

• Elgin Watch History •

• Why the U.S. Watch Industry Disappeared •

• Thinline or Thin-Thin? •

• Contact •

American Elgin

• Numbering System Explained •

• 10 Tips for Collectors •

• 27 + 30 Jewel Watch History •

• Elgin Watch History •

• Why the U.S. Watch Industry Disappeared •

• Thinline or Thin-Thin? •

• Contact •

• Numbering System Explained •

• 10 Tips for Collectors •

• 27 + 30 Jewel Watch History •

• Elgin Watch History •

• Why the U.S. Watch Industry Disappeared •

• Thinline or Thin-Thin? •

• Contact •

Elgin’s rare American-made 27 and 30 jewel automatic watches, 1959-1963

DRAFT

In the final years of American watchmaking, Elgin launched an innovative, “chronometer quality” line of luxury 27- and 30-jewel self-winding watches. Widely considered the only American-designed and built automatic watches, these rare timepieces are often called the “Forgotten Masterpieces.” This site provides a comprehensive guide to these watches, organized by type:

Ref. 1805 (and related 9905; and 2400?), Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “D”, solid 10k gold case

Notes: 33 mm diameter solid 10k gold case made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Ref. 1805 and 9905 can be identified minor differences in the caseback. Case 2400 is said to have been used with these watches, but the author has not seen evidence of this. Sometimes called Thin-Thin model “D”, but no model name is provided in many Elgin ads. Most notable among the designs is the shimmering linen dial and unique gold markers on ref. 9905.2. Every solid gold 27 and 30 jewel Elgin is rare, but the model “D” is the least rare. Award watches with custom dials like ref. 1805.4 exist for this series, made for companies like Southwestern E.P.C. and Granite City Steel. Caution: ref. 9905.3 has a popular dial type similar to ref. 9816.1, ref. 2437, and Lord Elgin Model “L” (unknown ref.); examine the case carefully for proper identification.

Watches with case refs. 1805, 2400, and 9905 follow the same numbering system (1805.1, 2400.1, 9905. 1, etc.) with the 4 digit case number first, followed by a period, and the last number identifying the dial.

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Ref. 1900, Lord Elgin 30 jewel, solid 14k gold case

Notes: The king of Elgin’s 27 / 30 jewel American-made automatic watches. Large and heavy 35 mm diameter solid 14k gold case (ref. 1900), made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Only one dial type is known, and is only known to have been used with case ref. 1900. More expensive than a Rolex Submariner or Oyster when new. Very rare. Despite the significance and rarity of this watch, a number of these have been melted down over the years for their gold value, as evidenced by complete dials + movements being resold without the case. The same fate has also befallen other solid gold 27/30 jewel Elgins. A tragic loss of some of the most high-end American-made automatic watches due to a lack of understanding of their importance.

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Ref. 2401, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “E”, solid 10k gold case

Notes: Elegant 33 mm diameter solid 10k gold case (ref. 2401), made by Queens Watch Case Co. of New York. Identified as Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “E”. Only one dial type is known. Only two mentions of this watch have been seen in Elgin advertising. Rare.

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Ref. 2403, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “H”, solid 14k gold case

Notes: Gorgeous 33.4 mm diameter solid 14k gold case (ref. 2403), made by Jonell of New York. Bezel has a distinctive brushed metal “Florentine” finish. Marketed as Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “H”. Two dial variations are known. Cost more than a Rolex Submariner or Oyster when new. Extremely rare.

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Ref. 2433, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “F”, 10k gold filled case

Notes: Small 29 mm diameter 10k gold filled case (ref. 2433), made by Jonell of New York. Marketed as Lord Elgin 30 jewel Thin-Thin model “F”. One known dial design, but comes in two versions: yellow gold (ref. 2433.1) and white gold (2433.2). The dial markers and hands should match the case color. The caseback comes in two variations, smooth and textured, but that appears to be random and not related to the case color. Model “F” was a strong seller and examples appear regularly for sale. The white gold version is significantly less common than the yellow gold.

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Ref. 2437, Lord Elgin 30 jewel, 10k gold filled bezel, stainless steel back

Notes: 33.5 mm diameter 10k gold filled bezel with stainless steel back (ref. 2437), made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. This appears to be the only dial variation for case ref. 2437. Caution: ref. 2437 has a dial that is very similar to ref. 9816.1, ref. 9905.3, and Lord Elgin Model “L” (unknown ref.); examine the case carefully for proper identification.

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Ref. 2434, Elgin 27 jewel and Lord Elgin 30 jewel “Horizon view”, 10k gold filled case

Notes: Thick 32.5 mm diameter 10k gold filled case (ref. 2434), made by Queens Watch Case Co. of New York. Unusually, both the Elgin 27 jewel and Lord Elgin 30 jewel use the same case 2434 (the only other examples of this type of “crossover” are case refs. 4455 and 9817). These were part of Elgin’s “Horizon Look” series. They have a large wraparound crystal covering the entire front of the watch, eliminating the bezel (a metal ring that holds the crystal). Curiously, the dial of 27 jewel version omits the Durabalance (db) symbol which should appear below the word “Elgin"; that was probably a typo. Some collectors refer to these as “Thin-Thin G” models, but the author has not seen evidence of this in Elgin’s advertising — the “G” models use case ref. 4444 and do not have Horizon View crystals. Collectors should look carefully at the crystal to ensure it is not chipped, a known issue with this design.

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Ref. 2440, Lord Elgin 30 jewel, 10k gold filled case

Notes: 32 mm diameter 10k gold filled case (ref. 2440), made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Only one dial version is known for case ref. 2440. The dial has some similarities to ref. 4430.4 and ref. 6850.1, but this version appears to be unique among 27 / 30 jewel Elgins. Expensive when new and rarely seen.

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Ref. 4430 (and related 6911), Elgin 27 jewel model “E”, solid 10k gold case

Notes: Thick and heavy 33.4 mm diameter solid 10k gold case (ref. 4430), made by Jonell of New York; wholesale catalogs also reference case 6911 used for these watches. Called the Thin-Thin model “E”, it was Elgin’s most expensive 27 jewel watch. All versions are rare. Ref. 4430.1 appears to be the only 27 jewel Elgin offered with a black dial. Ref. 4430.2 and 4430.3, with their classic designs, are rare enough that no photos are known to the author of this page.

Ref. 4430.4 is rather unique: it has a dial reminiscent of ref. 6850.1 and 2440, and uses the same hands as its “E” sibling ref. 4430.4. The dial lacks much of the normal verbiage seen on 27 jewel Elgins, but it is Elgin quality, and the 1963 inscription on the caseback suggests it came from the late days of the 27 jewel line. Note that Elgin’s 27 jewel Thin-Thin “S” (categorized below with an “Unknown” case number), also from the final days of Elgin’s 27 jewel line, has the same abbreviated language on its dial. Watches with case refs. 4430 and 6911 follow the same numbering system (4430.1, 6911.1, etc.), with the 4 digit case number first, followed by a period, and the last number identifying the dial.

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Ref. 4431, Elgin 27 jewel model “F”, solid 10k gold case

Notes: Flexible lugs, reminiscent of a driver’s watch. Marketed as Elgin’s Thin-Thin model “F”. Solid 10k gold case (ref. 4431), made by Queens Watch Case Co. of New York. Known in yellow gold (ref. 4431.1) and white gold (ref. 4431.2) versions. Minimally advertised by Elgin and rarely seen today.

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Ref. 4444, Elgin 27 jewel model “G”, 10k rolled gold plate bezel, stainless steel back

Notes: Small 30.5 mm diameter case, 10k rolled gold plate bezel with stainless steel back, made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan (ref. 4444). Marketed as Elgin’s 27 jewel Thin-Thin “G”. Two main dial types are known; both are scarce in nice condition.

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Ref. 4445, Elgin 27 jewel model “H”, 10k gold filled bezel, stainless steel back

Notes: Substantial 28 x 28 mm square case, 10k gold filled bezel with stainless steel back, made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan (ref. 4445). Sold as Elgin’s 27 jewel Thin-Thin “H” model. Offered in both yellow gold (ref. 4445.1) and white gold (ref. 4445.2) cases; the white gold version is rarer. Fun fact: Elgin ref. 4445 is the only American designed and made full rotor automatic watch in a square or rectangular case.

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Ref. 4447, Elgin 27 jewel model “K”, 10k gold filled bezel with stainless steel back

Notes: Substantial 35 mm case, 10k gold filled bezel with stainless steel back, made by Queens Watch Case Co. of New York (ref. 4447). Marketed as Elgin’s 27 jewel Thin-Thin “K” model. This was the most expensive 27 jewel Elgin apart from the solid gold “E” and “F” models. Ref. 4447.1 has a linen dial, while ref. 4447.2 has stylized hour markers similar to the stainless steel “C” model ref. 6850.2. Both versions are scarce, particularly in good condition.

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Ref. 4448, Elgin 27 jewel model “L”, 10k rolled gold plate / RGP with stainless steel back

Notes: Elegant 33.2 mm case made by I.D. Watch Case Co. of New York (ref. 4448). Marketed as Elgin’s 27 jewel Thin-Thin “L” model. Unusually, there are two versions of this case: one which is all 10k rolled gold plate (RGP), and the other which has a RGP bezel and stainless steel back (compare the description in the two ads for ref. 4448.1). The dial on ref. 4448.3 is the same as the dial on the Elgin’s solid gold “F” model, ref. 4431.1. All versions of the “L” are scarce, especially in nice condition.

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Ref. 4450, Elgin 27 jewel model “N”, yellow metal bezel with stainless steel back

Notes: Thick 32 mm case, with yellow base metal bezel and stainless steel back, made by I.D. Watch Case Co. of New York (ref. 4450). Marketed as Elgin’s 27 jewel Thin-Thin “N” model, and also as Elgin’s “American B Self Wind.” (Note that Elgin also marketed a different version of the “N” under ref. 4454). Ref. 4450.1 has a linen dial with a plain but somewhat futuristic design. Ref. 4450 has the only entirely base metal case in the entire 27/30 line (only the “cap” on the back is stainless steel).

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Ref. 4454, Elgin 27 jewel model “N”, all stainless steel case

Notes: Although ref. 4450 and 4454 are both called Thin-Thin “N” models, they have little in common. Ref. 4454 has a thick 33.3 mm all stainless steel case made by I.D. Watch Case Co. of New York. Only one dial type is known — with a unique titanium grey color, which Elgin called a “charcoal dial”. It also has golden dial markers, which are very unusual for an otherwise all stainless steel Elgin of this time period. Probably due to the materials and production process, the dial is often seen with flaking or cracking. Scarce in any condition, rare with an immaculate dial. Along with ref. 6850, the most expensive all-stainless steel 27-jewel Elgin.

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Ref. 4455, Elgin 27 jewel “R”, and ref. 2435, Lord Elgin 30 jewel “K”, 10k gold filled bezel, stainless steel back

Notes: One of the more unique cases is found in ref. 4455 and 2435. These two virtually identical 33 mm cases had 10k gold fill bezels with stainless steel backs and were made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Ref. 4455 was the 27 jewel Elgin Thin-Thin “R”, and ref. 2435 was the 30 jewel Lord Elgin Thin-Thin “K” model. Elgin ref. 4455 is so rare there does not appear to be any advertising for it. Advertising was done for Lord Elgin ref. 2435, but it is also rare.

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Ref. 4457, Elgin 27 jewel model “J”, rolled gold plated top, stainless steel back

Notes: Elgin 27 jewel Thin-Thin model “J” with a rolled gold plate top and stainless steel back. The case ref. number appears to be 4457. Advertising indicates there was one type of dial. This is a watch which perhaps should be common but is certainly not.

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Ref. 6850 (and related 4440 / 4453), Elgin 27 jewel model “C”, all-stainless steel case

Notes: 33 mm diameter all stainless steel case, made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan (ref. 6850) or I.D. Watch Case Co. of New York (ref. 4453); wholesale catalogs also reference case 4440 for these watches. Marketed as Elgin’s Thin-Thin “C” line of all-stainless 27 jewel watches, significantly more expensive than the “A” models (ref. 6853). Ref. 6850.1 and 6850.2 have two of the most distinctive dials in the entire 27 jewel line. The “C” model has also been seen with a Masonic dial, presumably a custom order by Freemason groups. A dial similar to 6850.2 but with gold markers was used with Elgin’s 27 jewel 10k gold filled model “K” (ref. 4447.2). Watches with case refs. 4440, 4453, and 6850 follow the same numbering system (4440.1, 4453.1, 6850.1, etc.), with the 4 digit case number first, followed by a period, and the last number identifying the dial.

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Ref. 6851 (and related 4441), Elgin 27 jewel “D” model, 10k rolled gold plate case

Notes: 33 mm diameter case ref. 6851 with 10k rolled gold plate case made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Wholesale catalogs indicate that case ref. 4441 was also used with these models. Marketed as Elgin’s 27 jewel Thinline or Thin-Thin model “D”. There are at least 3 dial variations. Ref. 6851.2 is the most commonly encountered of this type. Ref. 6851.1 appears often in Elgin advertising, but is far less commonly seen in real life. The dial on ref. 6851.3 is very similar to ref. 6852.2, and its dial is often are seen with radium toning from the luminous paint used on the hands. Watches with case refs. 4441 and 6851 follow the same numbering system (4441.1, 6851.1, etc.), with the 4 digit case number first, followed by a period, and the last number identifying the dial.

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Ref. 6852 (and related 4442), Elgin 27 jewel “D” and “P”, 10k rolled gold plate bezel, stainless steel back

Notes: 32 mm diameter case ref. 6852 with rolled gold case bezel and stainless steel back, made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Ref. 6852 is a relatively common case type for 27 jewel Elgins. Most versions were advertised as the Thinline or Thin-Thin “B”. Ref. 6852.1 is an exception: it was advertised and sold under three different model names: “American Made C”, “Thin-Thin P”, and Thinline and Thin-Thin “B”. Wholesale catalogs indicate that ref. 6852.1 was also sold under case number 4442 (ref. 4442.1). The other two references, 6852.2 and 6852.3, are less commonly encountered and their dials often are seen with radium toning on the dial from the luminous paint used on the hands. A variation of ref. 6852.3 (6852 award dial) was made for participants in the January 2, 1961 Orange Bowl football championship — a game attended by President John F. Kennedy. Watches with case refs. 4442 and 6852 follow the same numbering system (4442.1, 6852.1, etc.), with the 4 digit case number first, followed by a period, and the last number identifying the dial.

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Ref. 6853 (and related 4443 / 4449), Elgin 27 jewel models “A” and “M”, all-stainless steel case

Notes: Substantial 33.4 mm diameter case, all stainless steel, made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Ref. 6853 is the most common case type for 27 jewel Elgins with at least 6 different dial variations. These were the least expensive 27 jewel Elgins, although they still cost around a week’s wages for the average American worker in 1960. Most versions were advertised as the Thinline or Thin-Thin “A”.

One watch worth discussing is ref. 6853.2, which appears to be a later variation of 6853.1 (Thin-Thin “A”) but with larger, easier to read hands and lume dots around the dial. Ref. 6853.2 was also advertised as the “American A Self Wind” and appears to be the same watch Elgin calls the “Thin-Thin M” (ref. 4449.2). After the 27 jewel watches had been production for a few years, it appears Elgin plucked a couple of strong sellers out of their original home and gave them unique new model names. That may be how one Thin-Thin model “B” (ref. 6852.1 / 4442.1) became Thin-Thin “P” and “American Made C”; and how the Thin-Thin “A” evolved into Thin-Thin “M” and “American A Self-Wind”.

Ref. 6853.3 has a dial very similar to Lord Elgin 30 jewel “A” ref. 9815.3. Ref. 6853.4 and 6853.5 have characteristic radium toning on the dial from the luminous paint used on the hands. Elgin advertising also mentions stainless steel case ref. 4443 with a dial like that of 6853.4 (ref. 4443.4), but the 6853 cases predominate. Watches with case refs. 4443, 4449, and 6853 follow the same numbering system (4443.1, 4449.1, 6853.1, etc.), with the 4 digit case number first, followed by a period, and the last number identifying the dial.

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Ref. 8401(? - unclear), Lord Elgin 30 jewel, solid 14k gold case

Notes: Perhaps the most remarkable 30 jewel Elgin case. 33 mm diameter (41 mm including fancy hooded lugs), solid 14k gold, made by Jonell of New York. Potentially case ref. 8401 but still unclear, will be determined if watch is opened - not worth taking it apart for this purpose. Fancy lugs have art deco and space age influences, with a brushed metal “Florentine” finish on the bezel. No Elgin advertising has been uncovered yet for this watch. Extremely rare, only one other example known.

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Ref. 9815, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “A”, all-stainless steel case

Notes: Substantial 33.6 mm diameter case, all stainless steel, made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Although the least expensive 30 jewel Lord Elgins, these still cost over a week’s wages for a typical American worker in 1960. None of the three dial versions can be considered common. Advertised by Elgin as the Thinline or Thin-Thin 30 “A”. Ref. 9815.1 (along with ref. 9816.2) appear to be the only two 30 jewel Lord Elgins offered with a black dial. Ref. 9815.3 has a dial very similar to its 27 jewel Elgin cousin, ref. 6853.3.

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Ref. 9816 (and 2431?), Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “C”, 10k gold filled case

Notes: Substantial 33 mm diameter case ref. 9816, 10k gold filled, made by Ross watch case company of New York. Case 2431 is said to have been used with these watches, but the author has not seen evidence of this. Advertised by Elgin as the Thin-Thin 30 “C”. Except for the solid gold versions, these were the most expensive 30 jewel Elgins and are scarcely seen on the market today. Ref. 9816.2 (along with ref. 9815.1) appear to be the only two 30 jewel Lord Elgins offered with a black dial. A custom version of the ref. 9816.3 dial was made for the 1961 Rose Bowl football championship game. Caution: ref. 9816.1 has a popular dial type similar to ref. 9905.3, ref. 2437, and Lord Elgin Model “L” (unknown ref.); examine the case carefully for proper identification.

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Ref. 9817, Elgin 27 jewel “O” and Lord Elgin 30 jewel “B”, 10k rolled gold bezel, stainless steel back

Notes: 33 mm diameter case, with a 10k rolled gold bezel and stainless steel back, made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Ref. 9817 is one of the few “crossover” cases that was used on both the Elgin 27 and Lord Elgin 30 jewel watches. Ref. 9817.1 is one of the most stunning 27 jewel Elgins, and was marketed as the “Thin-Thin O” and “American Made D.” Among the Lord Elgin 30 jewel models, ref. 9817.2 is especially noteworthy for it “pie pan”-inspired dial design. The rarest of these watches is ref. 9817.1, the Elgin 27 jewel. The Lord Elgin 30 jewel versions appear with some regularity, particularly ref. 9817.2 and 9817.3.

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Ref. Unknown, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “L”

Notes: Small 30.5 mm diameter case, with a 10k rolled gold bezel and stainless steel back, made by Star Watch Case Co. of Michigan. Elgin advertising shows two dial variations. Caution: Lord Elgin Model “L” (version 1) has a popular dial design similar to ref. 2437, ref. 9816.1, and ref. 9905.3; examine the case carefully for proper identification.

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Ref. Unknown, Elgin 27 jewel model “S”

Notes: The 27 jewel Elgin “Thin-Thin S” is known from a pair of advertisements in Oakland and San Francisco, California newspapers dated November 11, 1962, toward the end of Elgin 27 jewel watch production. Note the abbreviated language on the dial (“Elgin” and “Selfwinding”), different than the typical 27 jewel dial.

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Ref. 1805 (and related 9905; and 2400?), Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “D”, solid 10k gold case

Ref. 1900, Lord Elgin 30 jewel, solid 14k gold case

Ref. 2401, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “E”, solid 10k gold case

Ref. 2403, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “H”, solid 14k gold case

Ref. 2433, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “F”, 10k gold filled case

Ref. 2437, Lord Elgin 30 jewel, 10k gold filled bezel, stainless steel back

Ref. 2434, Elgin 27 jewel and Lord Elgin 30 jewel “Horizon view”, 10k gold filled case

Ref. 2440, Lord Elgin 30 jewel, 10k gold filled case

Ref. 4430 (and related 6911), Elgin 27 jewel model “E”, solid 10k gold case

Ref. 4431, Elgin 27 jewel model “F”, solid 10k gold case

Ref. 4444, Elgin 27 jewel model “G”, 10k rolled gold plate bezel, stainless steel back

Ref. 4445, Elgin 27 jewel model “H”, 10k gold filled bezel, stainless steel back

Ref. 4447, Elgin 27 jewel model “K”, 10k gold filled bezel with stainless steel back

Ref. 4448, Elgin 27 jewel model “L”, 10k rolled gold plate / RGP with stainless steel back

Ref. 4450, Elgin 27 jewel model “N”, yellow metal bezel with stainless steel back

Ref. 4454, Elgin 27 jewel model “N”, all stainless steel case

Ref. 4455, Elgin 27 jewel “R”, and ref. 2435, Lord Elgin 30 jewel “K”, 10k gold filled bezel, stainless steel back

Ref. 4457, Elgin 27 jewel model “J”, rolled gold plated top, stainless steel back

Ref. 6850 (and related 4440 / 4453), Elgin 27 jewel model “C”, all-stainless steel case

Ref. 6851 (and related 4441), Elgin 27 jewel “D” model, 10k rolled gold plate case

Ref. 6852 (and related 4442), Elgin 27 jewel “D” and “P”, 10k rolled gold plate bezel, stainless steel back

Ref. 6853 (and related 4443 / 4449), Elgin 27 jewel models “A” and “M”, all-stainless steel case

Ref. 8401(? - unclear), Lord Elgin 30 jewel, solid 14k gold case

Ref. 9815, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “A”, all-stainless steel case

Ref. 9816 (and 2431?), Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “C”, 10k gold filled case

Ref. 9817, Elgin 27 jewel “O” and Lord Elgin 30 jewel “B”, 10k rolled gold bezel, stainless steel back

Ref. Unknown, Lord Elgin 30 jewel model “L”

Ref. Unknown, Elgin 27 jewel model “S”

DRAFT